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23 July 2012 @ 08:35 pm
So I've finally watched all 7 seasons of Buffy!  
Hopefully I've recovered a little bit of my fangirl-cred (which was seriously imperiled considering I'd never seen Buffy)

Random assortment of disjointed thoughts on all 144 (!!!!????) episodes here:

[Spoiler (click to open)]

* It is perfectly reasonable for a TV show to make you sob like a baby

* And laugh your ass off

* In the same episode

* That was one HELL of a series finale

* Does anyone else think that souless!Spike >>> souless!Angel? I mean, they both Did Evil Things, but souless!Spike seemed more motivated by human feelings and even by love, whereas souless!Angel seemed to want to INTENTIONALLY be as hurtful and cruel as possible

* I think Anya was my favorite character. Which made the finale especially D=. And Xander cracking jokes not even a minute after learning she'd died UGHHHHH

* Spike was my second-favorite

* Willow was my second-second-favorite

* Dawn was about the most annoying character of all time. God, that SCREAM @.@ ... I was rooting for her death quite frequently. Frankly I think she should have been grateful that everyone was willing to overlook their implanted memories, and make her part of their family, and should have stopped her constant screeching

* My issue with Buffy/Angel is the same as my issue with Elena/Stefan -- basically, total snoozefest @.@

* I know Willow was supposed to be gay, but did she strike anyone else as more bi? Idk, it was just her last conversation with Oz that really made it seem to me that she wasn't all like "I love WOMEN" and more "I love this WOMAN". Idk. Could just be me. Please don't jump down my throat, this is just how it came across to me. Maybe Joss decided to joss himself? XD

* I think Normal Again was my favorite episode - I really liked the ambiguity of the ending

* The Body was my second favorite. For so much of the ep to be devoted to her just having to stand there, powerless, hoping against hope ... GOD >.< ... that kind of killed me

* Everyone I know irl thinks Once More, With Feeling is the best ep but I thought the characterization was a bit off, with Xander summoning it for fun


* Oh yeah. I LOVED THIS SHOW. Which should go without saying. Awesome, awesome show!
 
 
 
kelkat9 on July 24th, 2012 12:53 am (UTC)
Was it really 144 eps! Wow! Angel/Buffy was a thing at first but I agree it sort of was overdone the longer it went on. I admit to being a Spuffy person but then I love Spike's character. To me, he changed the most of all the characters. Anya and the bunnies - will not forget that. Once More With Feeling was different and interesting and the ending killer but not my favorite. I think the episodes that stand out to me in no particular order were the finale, Hush, The Body and Graduation Day and that one where something funky was happening and Buffy and Spike were engaged and Giles was horrified.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:29 am (UTC)
ITA!! And it was a wonderfully entertaining show! =D
fogsblue: buffyfogsblue on July 24th, 2012 01:01 am (UTC)
And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now)
*Adds some fangirl cred to your fangirl card (it's a thing OK!)* YAY!!! Buffy is an important part of being a fangirl ;D

* It is perfectly reasonable for a TV show to make you sob like a baby

* And laugh your ass off

* In the same episode


In many episodes. Bastards.

* That was one HELL of a series finale

I've seen a few series finales and even ignoring my love of the show, I still think this is one of the absolute best. It was a clever way to end. Huge battle, huge changes but connection to where the show started. And some ambiguity to the ending.

* Does anyone else think that souless!Spike >>> souless!Angel? I mean, they both Did Evil Things, but souless!Spike seemed more motivated by human feelings and even by love, whereas souless!Angel seemed to want to INTENTIONALLY be as hurtful and cruel as possible

I actually adore the differences between soulless!Angel and soulless!Spike. What motivates them, love versus pleasure in others misery, amuses them and what makes them evilly happy.

* I think Anya was my favorite character. Which made the finale especially D=. And Xander cracking jokes not even a minute after learning she'd died UGHHHHH

ANYA! Seriously, I always adored Anya but the moment I completely feel in love with her was in The Body, I mean I wanted to cry anyway but her confusion... *Sobs*
As for her death... WAS NOT FAIR! BUt Xander always made jokes about the emotional things he couldn't deal with.

* Dawn was about the most annoying character of all time. God, that SCREAM @.@ ... I was rooting for her death quite frequently.

This is true. Though I warmed to her a bit in the last season.

* I know Willow was supposed to be gay, but did she strike anyone else as more bi? Idk, it was just her last conversation with Oz that really made it seem to me that she wasn't all like "I love WOMEN" and more "I love this WOMAN".

I've always leant more towards she was bi myself. It wasn't so much about being straight or a lesbian, just that Tara happened to be the person she fell in love with.

Maybe Joss decided to joss himself? XD

Side note, I love the way his name has termed into a verb now ;)

* I think Normal Again was my favorite episode - I really liked the ambiguity of the ending

Still one of my favourite episodes.

* Everyone I know irl thinks Once More, With Feeling is the best ep but I thought the characterization was a bit off, with Xander summoning it for fun

There might be a couple of issues with Xander being stupid enough to summon a demon, but I think part of what made this such an amazing episode is it was the first show in a very long time to make a musical that actually made sense in terms of the show.

And seriously, some of us can still sing those sings word for word :P

Edited at 2012-07-24 01:18 am (UTC)
sherrilina: Cordy/Angel (Angel)sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 03:24 am (UTC)
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now)
And seriously, some of us can still sing those sings word for word :P

"I died, so many years ago...but you can make me feel, like it isn't so!"

Ugh I remember amusing myself by just reciting the whole damn thing to myself...I need to put it back on my iPod!
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now) - fogsblue on July 24th, 2012 03:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now) - anna_sg1 on July 24th, 2012 09:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now) - fogsblue on July 25th, 2012 02:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now) - kilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: And I need a Buffy icon ok! (better now) - fogsblue on July 25th, 2012 03:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
fogsbluefogsblue on July 24th, 2012 01:12 am (UTC)
Side note...



:D
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:33 am (UTC)
This is fact!!
ladysophiekitty: C/A Halloweenladysophiekitty on July 24th, 2012 01:23 am (UTC)
I agree about Buffy/Angel!

If you watch Angel, Cordy/Angel became my otp. In fact, the Doctor/Rose just recently beat it as my #1.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:33 am (UTC)
Angel is definitely next on my watch list!! I am going out of town for a couple of days, but after that I intend to marathon it =)
fannishliss: j2 sweetnessfannishliss on July 24th, 2012 01:37 am (UTC)
My hubby and I never finished Buffy, because when they killed Tara he was so put off he would never watch it again. So I only saw the remainder in snippets. Joss loves to kill characters... It keeps me from fully engaging with his stories sometimes just out of self preservation. :P

What I got was -- didn't SPN just pass 150? I think Jared tweeted that? if so, then WOW, THE LITTLE SHOW THAT COULD!!!!!
sherrilina: Dean Smilie (Supernatural)sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 03:31 am (UTC)
Really?! That must be because of the extra 2 epps last season...amazing indeed! <333. (Though I do hope they end soon before it runs out of steam).
(no subject) - anna_sg1 on July 24th, 2012 09:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 09:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - anna_sg1 on July 24th, 2012 10:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 10:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
Queen of the Castlejessicaqueen on July 24th, 2012 01:42 am (UTC)
I always found it problematic that the writers refused to acknowledge that Willow's bisexual. Yes, all the 'um, gay now' jokes are relatively funny, but it's clear that she did love Oz, and was physically attracted to him, even if she loved and wanted Tara more. It would have been different if she'd realised when she met Tara that, actually, this is love, and she hadn't quite felt it with Oz after all, but as it stands? She should definitely have been recognised as bi rather than completely gay.
sherrilina: Arthur/Chicken (Merlin)sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 03:57 am (UTC)
I used to feel the same way, saying she was definitely bi and chalking up the "gay now" line to continuity fail (like the line about Buffy's death making any Potentials turn into Slayers since that would be Faith's death) or bad writing...but recently I've been reading some meta and commentary saying that it shouldn't matter, if she identifies as lesbian, people should accept that--and that the writer had had similar experiences before figuring out their sexual identity as gay. So idk now...
(no subject) - kilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sherrilina on July 25th, 2012 03:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:37 am (UTC)
I'm very glad to have seen it! It's really given me more of an appreciation for some of the themes that keep repeating across modern shows, be it Buffy, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Vampire Diaries - you name it!
ThroughAnAmberFocus: BtvS--Buffy and Spikeamberfocus on July 24th, 2012 02:32 am (UTC)
I always felt that Willow and Tara had pair-bonded on a deeply emotional level. I didn't think it would have mattered to Willow if Tara was a man or a woman, it was the person that she was and the experiences that they shared that made them who they were as a couple. Willow loved the person. I never, ever bought Willow with Kennedy. She always seemed uncomfortable and jumpy and that relationship was rushed and never felt right. Plus Willow clearly loved both Xander and Oz and expressed the love physically with both of them and not in a way that was experimental or her thinking she should be with a guy because she was a girl, but because she was very physically attracted to them both. So bisexuality makes a lot more sense to me, but I don't think mainstream American TV would have been able to handle such a thing in the late 90's/early 00's. Not even on the WB/UPN. So a lesbian she was.

Spike was flat out a more interesting character than Angel. I liked season one Angel a lot and I liked Angel when he was on his own show and they paired him with Cordelia. But their relationship in seasons 2 and 3 seemed more bland, missing the sizzle of season one. Spike and Buffy always sizzled, even long before they started writing a love story angle. I never hated evil!Spike, but I definitely hated evil!Angel. I think Buffy and Spike were a hotter pairing for sure. But there also seemed to be a deeper emotional connection. Not always with good emotions, though.

In the end, I think I always thought Buffy would grow up a bit more and settle down with Xander who was steady and reliable and what she needed after all those bad boys. Was not to be.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:38 am (UTC)
ITA with your whole comment.

Particularly Kennedy ... that just seemed extremely random and half-hazard @.@
queen_insane: spuffy 1queen_insane on July 24th, 2012 02:40 am (UTC)
I love Buffy so much.

Over time I've come to understand Buffy/Angel even if I ship Spuffy (it should be said though that my favorite Buffy ship is Spike/Angel/Buff). But I love the series so so so so much.

I have so many feels for this show I can't.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:39 am (UTC)
I feel like I understand why BUFFY would love Angel, but as a viewer it just felt very bland to me and not very interesting to watch =X
(no subject) - queen_insane on July 25th, 2012 04:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
develish1develish1 on July 24th, 2012 03:24 am (UTC)
I would say Once More, With Feeling was the best ep ever, but it was fun :)

I'm not sure I could pick a "best Ever" though to be honest, it's actually been a while since I saw some of it

As for Willow, yeah I was always a bit dubious over her precise sexuality, as to me it seemed a little vague too

kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:40 am (UTC)
Yeah it's such a whirlwind that some eps are blurring together for me even though I just saw them - there are SO MANY!!
turtle_goose: BtVS:  Buffy/Angel - I'll Never Forgetturtle_goose on July 24th, 2012 03:54 am (UTC)
Buffy is definitely my favorite character and probably the one character on that show I'll always stan for. Buffy/Angel is my favorite ship ever (I call it my OTP of OTPs) and I have a wicked little soft spot for Buffy/Angelus. I actually prefer Angelus over souless!Spike just because I found his motivations so much more interesting - especially in the show Angel, whereas I just found Spike boring honestly overused. I also liked Dawn? Like, I understood her angst, even if it got old. (A+ on MT's screaming though - SO ANNOYING!)

Normal Again and The Body are two of my favorite episodes. (Normal Again and Once More, With Feeling are the only real episodes of S6 that I let myself remember happen. S6 and I have issues...it's was joined by S3 of Chuck later on, so now it's not alone anymore.)
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:41 am (UTC)
Angel is the next show I'm going to watch. I've heard universally awesome things about it - I'm really looking forward to it! =D
sherrilina: Cordy/Angel (Angel)sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 04:55 am (UTC)
Omg finally! :D. I'm glad I helped shame you into watching on behalf of your fandom street cred. NOW you have to watch ATS (Angel), the spinoff), because it's even better, IMO--deeper, more complex, better made, and with a stronger cast. And you will see the full awesome of Cordelia Chase, who is my favorite Buffyverse character (Whose absence on BTVS post-s3 was filled by both Anya and Spike!)...and Cordy/Angel! <333

Lol, I do like Buffy/Angel, but only in s1-3 (but especially s2 because of the AAANGST factor with Angelus). But Spuffy > Bangel for me--did you ship Spuffy?! I agree Spike was better than Angel souless in terms of being a better person, though I do love Angelus too, I thought he was one of the best villains on BTVS, and made s2 really epic.

Aw, sorry to hear you hate Dawn...I never minded her too much, I feel like discovering your entire existence is a lie is worthy of some angst.

As someone else said, aside from the Xander thing I thought OMWF was pretty in-character, and really clever in that the lyrics make complete sense while the songs are actually good, and it reveals important character insights and moves the plot and relationships along. And lol, in that epp of The Borgias where Cesare challenges Savonarola to walk through the fire I got "Walk through the Fire" stuck in my head! :p

The Body is a great epp, one of the few epps of TV period that has made me cry! And Normal Again is interesting, though IMO clearly fake. What was your favorite season? And ha Spike is my favorite character (though Anya is certainly up there!), so glad you like him too, he seems to be pretty divisive in fandom.

I loved Chosen the first time I saw it, and I still do, but since then I have read a lot of critiques that have made me realized it's pretty flawed (and giving the power to all the girls, forcing it on them as the men forced the power on the first slayer with no thought to the consequences, is pretty terrible). And also FYI Angel is super OOC in his BTVS appearances in the last 2 epps. But....emotions! Music! Spike! Running on collapsing buildings! (Ugh Xander though, seriously...). I've rewatched Chosen a lot. I think s7 has a special place in my heart apart from all the flaws because it was the first of BTVS I ever saw.

My fave seasons are 2 and 5 tied.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:45 am (UTC)
As far as my favorite season goes, they kind of blurred together for me since I saw them all so quickly >.< ... I think I liked s6 and s7 the best, at least on first viewing - Dawn wasn't as annoying in s7 as she was in s5 and s6 (honestly, it was a big turnoff to me), and the themes were a bit darker, which I enjoy!

I ... think I like Spuffy? I loved Spike, and I kind of wanted him to be able to find the peace that eluded him both as a human and a vampire. I don't think Buffy was the 'right' person for that, but eh, she made him happy XD

Angel is next on my to-watch list!! =D
(no subject) - sherrilina on July 25th, 2012 03:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
sherrilina: Cordy/Angel (Angel)sherrilina on July 24th, 2012 05:11 am (UTC)
Also favorite episodes: The Gift and Becoming Part 2. And lol, between you and a million other ppl I know who seem to be watching BTVS (my friend kept texting me random things about it!), and a lot of meta I've been reading, I've begun rewatching BTVS in the first time in ages! ;). Though I can't watch all the epps because s1 is so boring.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:46 am (UTC)
I feel like I barely remember s1 lol, except that everyone looked crazy young XD
(no subject) - sherrilina on July 25th, 2012 02:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
x5valex5vale on July 24th, 2012 09:56 am (UTC)
Dawn was about the most annoying character of all time.
Agree 100%!

My issue with Buffy/Angel is the same as my issue with Elena/Stefan -- basically, total snoozefest
I disagree on this. Buffy/Angel was way more complicated than Stefan/Elena imo and Buffy/Spike really never worked for me despite the fact that Spike has always been one of my favorite character.

Maybe Joss decided to joss himself?
Maybe :)

Awesome awesome show indeed!

kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:46 am (UTC)
Dawn's voice just had to be the most grating thing ever >.< ...
Annissaannissag on July 24th, 2012 12:23 pm (UTC)
Yaaay! Buffy love! I don't even know where to start in responding to this! I feel like a spaniel whose owner just returned home!

I think it's interesting that soulless Spike showed kindness and humanity. Soulless Angel never did, and that may speak to the kinds of men they were before becoming vampires. A soul was forced on Angel, and I think he considers it a burden. He has a soul now, so he must atone for his sins. Spike sought his soul out to be a better man.

Xander deals with pain by making jokes. I don't think he knows any other way. It's how he copes. While the show never explicitly states it (though they get real close in "Hell's Bells"), I think he came from an abusive family and he was always joking about how unhappy his homelife was. So him cracking jokes shortly after the death of not only Anya, but so many of the new Slayers didn't seem particularly out of character to me.

Dawn never really bothered me and I really liked her parts in Season 7. I found the scene between her and Xander at the end of "Potential" particularly touching. It's like one of those "Ordinary people can do extraordinary things" speeches that I love so much in Doctor Who.

I would have considered Willow bisexual, but if she identifies as a lesbian, it's not my place to argue. heh

I wrote about my feelings on the finale here. Buffy pops up in that meme a few other times as well.
kilodaltonkilodalton on July 25th, 2012 02:49 am (UTC)
Excellent points, all!

Dawn in s7 did grate on me less than in previous seasons - I think it's because she whined/screeched less. She really came into her own that season - I liked that scene in "Potential" as well, and I just wish we'd seen a bit more of that even earlier.

I'm really starting to think it's more a dislike on my part for Michelle T's voice than for anything about Dawn as a character per se.